Good morning 👋
If you work or invest in fintech, you’ve probably heard of Charley Ma.
He led growth at Ramp, Alloy, and Plaid, and now he invests in early-stage companies as a GP at Pathlight.
We wanted to ask him about:
The choice to be a thematic investor
The challenge of thinking over long time horizons with the pace at which the world is changing today
Takeaways from moving upstream and warranting more ownership
How the role of emerging managers will change over the next ten years
Here’s what Charley had to say …
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Charley Ma
GP @ Pathlight
Can you talk about the decision to be thematically focused as a generalist fund?
We categorize ourselves as a thematically-focused generalist fund, but there are a few categories where we spend the majority of our time.
Winners for us came through deep thematic work and it's also how we like to personally spend our time.
Venture is a super long time horizon, and we want to spend as much time as possible talking to experts in different spaces so that we can develop our own unique view of that market.
We think that knowledge (and the network) compounds.
Do you think it’s harder to take a 10-year approach to identifying themes when the world is changing at its current pace?
Absolutely - all we can do is develop opinions.
For us, it’s more about mapping out the markets we’re excited about, and then we let the founder guide us to a deeper insight.
Founders have spent 10x the time we have in a given area, and they can provide non-shallow answers to our questions. This is more helpful to rule some things out.
How are you thinking about feature parity and product differentiation in today’s world?
One of the more interesting questions we’ve been thinking through is this:
“If AI can become more agentic and take away more of the services work, does it actually begin to eat software?”
If this plays out, we think distribution matters even more than it does today.
Assuming this plays out, there are really two ways to win in the future:
1) Build a beautiful product that creates tons of customer loyalty
2) Build durable distribution quickly
If there are two takeaways from this, they are this:
1) Brand > everything, and you should do everything you can to build and protect your brand. Taking a longer time horizon is usually a good rule of thumb for that.
2) Your product has to give users an “ah-ha” moment faster. They need to see the value immediately, or else they will find something else that can give it to them.
What’s been the biggest lesson / takeaway / adjustment you’ve noticed since moving upstream and asking for more company ownership per check?
What does ball control actually mean?
We like to lead, and we like to co-invest with other investors we have worked with before.
When you reach a certain size fund, how you source deals and how you work with other funds changes dramatically. This is why we decided to keep the fund size what it is so that we could be collaborative with other seed funds.
As we’ve scaled up, we’ve made some changes to sourcing and internal tooling, and most of that focus has gone towards answering “how can we get to conviction as quickly as possible?”.
What's one mistake you’ve noticed other emerging managers make?
Not qualifying LPs enough.
The faster you can disqualify bad fits, the more time you can spend with people who can actually work with you.
How do you see the role of an emerging manager changing over the next decade?
Being a solo capitalist or a solo GP wasn’t really possible ten years ago.
We’re noticing a huge shift where the more notable funds have now scaled up to larger AUMs + larger teams. If you want to compete with these funds, you have to have a different product offering.
Pathlight doesn’t have a massive platform team, but they also don’t have a rotating group of investors, their portfolio companies work directly with the GPs, and this better aligns incentives especially at the early stages.
For companies, they have to choose whether they want to have a closer working relationship with the GP or if they value the brand over that.
What’s a hard truth about venture capital that very few people acknowledge?
It's actually a very poor asset class if you're looking to make money.
I wouldn’t recommend investing into venture unless you truly understand what you’re getting from the asset class.
Returns are really hard to deliver on a consistent basis.
There is a ton of irrationality around pricing and distortion. Taking AI as an example, there will be a handful of notable companies created and billions of dollars wasted chasing those companies.
Lots of venture investing also comes down to picking the right vintage.
If you want venture-like returns, there are also plenty of ways to find them in the public markets.
More: https://www.pathlight.vc
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- Clay
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